I was a little bit surprised. in some ways I thought it was quite well observed of me. but in others I thought it didn't quite get to the grit of me really. They were strange times in Midville. We were all in a little play almost, like a theatre group working, and we were being moved in a particular direction. Directed I suppose. And it was all new to us. We all had our own ideas and trying to fit them into this conceptual art idea was actually not the most straightforward of things. 

 

But the staff were really supportive and when I said look this isn't me; they said well what is. They did give me a lot of support, I mean well Stone was amazing. And Kerr, he actually found in my first job after. 

 

At school I was being guided, directed to  becoming a diplomat. I do lots of languages and all sorts of stuff but art was not really available really. At Birmingham, the things I was doing, the fine art area was the only one they could put me in. Fine art is so loose, well you could say anything is fine art really, but eventually you'll have to explain what you mean.

 

Someone came, it might have been Kerr, someone came from Midville to talk to us and also Dyer, he was a part-time tutor on the foundation, got to know him quite well. He said you know we're setting up this new thing in Midville, it's just down the road, do you want to come and have a look. And they were just in the process of building the new site. It was immaculate, and I do remember a dragon of a lady who said you're not allowed to put anything on the walls, you can't put anything on the floor. I thought well that's not going to go off. And as soon as we all moved in and Dave had his chickens in his cage that was it, we'd taken over really. We weren't certain what we were supposed to be doing, and I'm not sure the staff were quite certain what we were supposed to be doing.

 

We all generated ideas when we started to sort of work together a bit. No I didn't fit straight in. One or two people did, and I think they were the people who knew what they were doing. I was completely uncertain but Dyer was helpful, and there was another guy, the sculptor – Gibson. I know he wasn't directly helpful but he pushed everyone quite hard. There was a period of time I remember when you could go into the studio and there was no one there. When you're on a conceptual art course you always have the excuse that you could say I was off thinking, down the pub. It was that period in history really. Tutorials in the pub. Dyer was teaching on the foundation at Birmingham. I think some new stuff had been brought in maybe by Stone. Coutts I think was quite new. Dyer was certainly on the edge of doing new things. The traditionalist, maybe Gibson was one of those as well, I think he was expecting something else from us. 

 

I was sharing with Harold, I don't think he's in the book. And I think it was Arthur as well. It wasn't Dave. I was doing electronic stuff - interactive electronics. I had already met another guy on the foundation teaching staff, and he and I used to make things for hospitals and thing, that made nice images on screens for hospitals. Relaxing. But I also got quite involved with  helping staff make stuff. made things with Stone.  An exhibition in my second year. Dyer and I made a big sculpture together. Then I got into sound and there was a thing for the opening of the college, I did some of that. I never had a long stretch of time to develop, and I think it made me come across as a little bit - flirting with my own subject. And I probably was trying to find my subject.

 

I don't remember there being much teaching to be honest. at all. There were tutorials with individual staff and I remember there being sessions at the end of the semester, and we had to put up stuff off what we had done. And there was an exhibition every year, first year exhibition second year exhibition and so on. Yeah they were pretty brutal and some of them were from the old school if you like, and some of them were from the new school. and you quite often find that the staff were fighting each other to support the person.  That wasn't just me everyone was getting that. Oh no he's doing this. and then they start speaking, and yes it was bipartisan really. The befores and the afters, and the students were the durings .

 

I think I was in this rather unfortunate position in many ways, because I already knew my technical stuff, so from the point of view of teaching, I didn't get any at all. I used to go to see people in the physics department and stuff like that to get help if I couldn't make something work, and they were very helpful. The things I wanted and expected from staff was guidance on my direction. When somebody gave me an idea I could deal with it. I was getting my own ideas, but they didn't fit in with what I thought. Cos I was still young enough to think well these are our tutors and they know what they're talking about. 

 

Dyer was very helpful I think. Stone, he gave up his office for me to have my final show. That was something wasn't it.  Because I needed  to somewhere to work because I was, I needed electricity so somebody gave up their studio for me. which isolated me a bit. But people used to come and find me. 

 

(The paper delivered by  Arthur written by Brian, Dyer etc) I think the four of us were on the same planet at that time, but we were the only four that were. Either we were on the wrong planet or it was everybody else. The sort of friendship with Dyer and Coutts and Arthur went along quite well actually. I remember spending time in typesetting, there was graphic design and print, and there was a typesetting room and we spent quite a lot of time in there, formulating ideas and sort of concepts. And typesetting them by hand, and my work is still about juxtaposition. So I remember Arthur and I being in there for many hours together  and formulating ideas for the next one.

 

i think it was cos I did languages at school and so I had this natural thing for words. It was natural, it interested me from a personal point of view, but I didn't get enough out of it and I could put in a bit of effort and get results and it seemed to go down quite well, and it was creating the sort of impression we wanted to create with people. But it wasn't doing that much for me. I went more into the interactive stuff. That was partly because of the exhibition in Midville museum where the staff put on on an exhibition. Dyer and I put together the construction. Coutts came around quite a lot and we talked about about the interaction between these objects. It was a huge galvanised water tank, circular like an outsize gas cylinder, and a big corrugated sheet of iron. And you could walk between them and sounds occurred and all sorts. and as you approached it would change and all sorts of stuff. That was more about how people interacted with art. That was another area we delved into. but I was much more interested in making the stuff. getting it working and watching people . The show was all about cybernetics, which was Dyer's thing really. But there was all sorts of other stuff going on at the time. it gave me that lead into interaction with art which is what I still do now. 

 

Most of us were really a bit more into the alcohol because it's more social we found. down the pub talking to the fashion girls and that sort of thing. 

 

I don't think there was much interplay (between the boys and the girls), they didn't come to the pub you see. I mean we had most of our lectures in the pub.  I can remember someone else who was making some quite interesting things with plaster. But they didn't fit in with the staff and she was being bullied actually and they gave her some really bad criticism about it. she was struggling for what should be. she was on the wrong course it seemed. I remember lace and things being draped in plaster and creating shapes. it was completely off the wall as far as the course was concerned.

 

I can remember the tutorial because everybody was in the tutorials. Everybody got a going over. all morning or afternoon, or sometimes all day. I seem to remember feeling a little bit sorry for her. They all laid in. I remember Gibson saying it was f****** s***. It's not exactly what I would have expected really, and I remember her crying over it. I might have had a bit of it but I was tough, and I was quite able to create an argument against the argument against me if you like. So I didn't feel it not in the way that I think other people might have done. if you were the slightest bit sensitive you would have reeled a bit I'm sure. You don't expect to go through a whole semester and then be completely slagged off at the end of it. I mean I had Dyer as my personal tutor, I was lucky he always came in  He always saw me every week, we went over things we went over new ideas and went to the pub and have a couple of pints. Perfect absolutely as it should be. 

 

Dave, he started making small things that were interactive. We did an exhibition and he and I got places at the ICA. And he made a small interactive thing and I made a great big thing, a huge pinball table and you had people on this end and people on that wood switches and everything went off it was quite good. Dave was different he wasn't eccentric at all, anyone could be forgiven for thinking that, having chickens in an art studio. but I could see where he was coming from. I had Dyer he had Gibson you know. 

 

I can remember Barbara Weinberger being around in the studio sometimes, she was always there writing things when there were tutorials on but she came across as being the secretary. That was the sort of image she gave. but she never came into my studio. But it was observed maybe rather than interaction so that's maybe what it was supposed to be.

 

(Tutor's 2nd year comments). I thought when I read those that they got me just about right. They'd obviously got it,  but they didn't seem to be able to help me.  I've always had a problem with that idea of relating to to art in what other people might see as art. I got quite involved with digital art, and some people might say oh it isn't art. 

 

I think if I hadn't gone to Midville and met those people and had those experiences and even those criticisms, then I might have gone down and entirely different path. And then Kerr got me this job at Liverpool. I was fully into it by then, it was the route I was on and I was fully determined. I suppose that I was going to continue with it. It had been an experiment and it was now how I earned my money. 

 

(His paintings). I might have done cars, well I did do cars but I never did anything like Hokkusai's wave or anything like that. That was probably one of those moments where I was trying to make what I was doing into fine art. But I never painted at home, never.

 

The second year exhibition. Disappointment, I don't know about. It wasn't very well attended. There was no, I mean we had secretaries come from the school office. And they'd ask you about what you were doing because they had no idea either. and you'd explain and people would walk around. but it never seemed to be a show. We seemed to have put in a lot of effort,  gone to a lot of trouble I think making signs and doing the catalogue, and it didn't seem to.... Why might have been the question. Maybe it was the wrong audience you know.

 

Giles, he was always on the edge, he was a bit unusual and  he had a bit of a personality thing that nobody seems to be able to get getting near.  Used to come to the cafe and have a bacon sandwich in the morning but he never became a real part of the group.